The impact of armor

First, lets get one thing straight, combat in Absolver is primarily about stamina management. Unless you feel that blocking is dishonourable, your health is merely a record of how well (or poorly) you've done in managing your stamina vs your opponent.

If that's accepted, then it occurs that the impact of armor on combat in Absolver is overall negative for the person wearing it.

I tried running with a character with max'd blunt armor. 64. Yet in combat with a person who's simply spamming light attacks, the value of the armor is almost negligible. Sure, I can remain stun-locked for a slightly longer period of time whilst he pounds on me, but the primary effect of that much armor is simply to make it impossible for me to dodge, and to make it harder for me to regain my stamina.

Now I know, I know, wear less armor, dummy, is the obvious solution, but that's not my point. My point is I'm padded up like a friggin' medicine ball. The opponents light hits should barely register. Yet even a simple jab to the ribs -- my most padded section, has me rocking back like I was hit with a baseball bat if I'm unguarded, and guarded I'm still taking a significant amount of stamina damage.

I'm of the opinion that armor should have a much stronger effect on cancelling any sort of stun and knockback when not guarded, and when guarded should eliminate stamina damage at nearly a 1 for 2 point basis, except for a very minor level of damage that's unblockable (because, even padded up like a medicine ball, I still got hit). So if I'm sitting at 64 points of blunt armor, guarded, and you hit me with a blunt attack of 32 or less you only do say 10% of that 32 as stamina damage.

Now, in return, the penalties for wearing armor should also be increased. For instance, have my total stamina reduced by the amount of armor I'm wearing, and have the stamina usage of moves adjusted by their mobility rating. S class mobility moves = 125% of their damage added to the stamina cost, A class moves = 100% damage added, etc. After all, if I'm padded up like a medicine ball, an I execute a jumping back kick.. that should be about all I can do without resting for a moment.

Of course the problem with this is that it's a fairly radical change to the combat system, and many moves might need to be rebalanced. But I think it would work well to make more diverse styles available for real play. Yes, you can play a tank and then mostly ignore the light spammers, but you're a tank.. slow, deliberate, and have to make use of feints if you're going to land any hits. Fortunately, your armor will likely give you the time to do it. Or you can run light and be able to dish out a lot of damage, but if you run across any tanks, you'd best alter your style to take advantage of various tank-busting moves.

Perhaps there's something I'm missing about armor, but right now, it really doesn't seem to be worth carrying very much at all, and that's limiting both in playstyle choice, and, let's be honest, in diversity of fashion.


  • Agreed. Armor right now feels like a 'noobs only' stigma is attached to it.

    If it did something like reducing the amount of distance you traveled with a shockwave impact or made a significant impact on stamina loss (as detailed above) then the justifications to wearing it may seem more reasonable. Like the OP, I may be missing something about armor, but if it has a benefit, it is not intuitive or overt.
  • Armor doesn't really impact your performance or damage much. The damage soaking ability makes it worth it. The game would become a mess if moves would have to be balanced around armor.
  • I agree, the % of damage reduced by armor is not worth the waste of stamina regen you pay for. I've ran a new character in the trials against others with full armor, and no armor (completely naked) and with half armor. Running at fast, normal, and slow. I've had best results with fast, and border line normal/fast threshold. the closer i am to slow, the only benefit is, heavy attacks do about 2/3 of it's original damage, and blade attacks have significantly reduced damage. A formula change is in order, and as far as attacks and combo variation goes. there are just some attacks you see in everybody's kit because it's just too good of a move, (the low spinning attack, or the handstand kick which hits twice and ducks attacks). True variation would come if certain attacks were slowed or scaling lowered slightly.
  • The differences armor makes are small but noticeable, like stat increases. Small differences in these things make the game's combat more based on individual skill and deck-building, with countering based primarily on move selection. Armor can still be used for small advantages or to make up weak points.

    Using the example of the fight with the speed spammer: if you were to counter with charge attacks, your armor lessens the damage from the first unblocked hit you'll take on most swings, and over the course of a match that can make a real difference.

    Also, if armor had a larger role, the endgame would have everyone in one or two outfits, min-maxed. Having armor be a small factor relative to skill allows me to wear my fancy pants into battle, and I like that.
  • Hey everyone! I'd like to start here by saying thank you very much for your well written feedback regarding armor and how it plays into the stamina system within combat!

    While I can't promise that changes will be enacted as a result of the feedback and thoughts here, I'll most certainly be passing this back to the team. Thank you so much for sharing all of this with us!
  • I've also run tests with armor to no armor, and ultimately haven't found the payoff of armor to be worth it. I'd actually prefer it didn't have a huge impact, and probably less of a stamina drain so that we can use it primarily for fashion. I will say there is a noticeable difference vs cut damage, but beyond that, what you lose in stamina loss is really more of a danger, because lets be real, stamina = health, or a rechargeable shield, if you will.

    It currently doesn't seem to be impactful vs blunt damage vs light attacks (the stun of it which is more what you'd hope it to affect) or heavy attacks (soaking up that damage. It makes a difference and probably adds up in a fight, but this is something you really have to objectively experience and monitor over time before/after having a contrasting experience of playing light/fast).

    How impactful are stats really? I do wonder if they make a massive difference. Ultimately I feel that when I win or have lost, it is because of conflicting techniques and fighting styles, missed defensive abilities, getting inside someone's rythm and mixups/mindgames, etc. I've never really had a fight where I lost and said damn, if I had armor, that would have gone much better, or maybe with 5 points more in strength and those extra .5 points of damage I would have gotten that guy down much sooner, etc.

    and I'm actually okay with that.

    But I don't have hundreds of hours in the game yet. Reality and knowledge of the system yet to be acquired.
  • As I've seen suggested elsewhere, the best solution would be to reduce stun duration based on armor rating. Wearing a lot of armor actually makes you slower, but you're still getting stunlocked by fast moves spam. A slight reduction of knockback when wearing certain amounts of armor and an adjustement to the overall knockback induced by light attacks would solve both problems of armor being a disadvantage and mono-attack stunlock spammers.

    On a cosmetics note, as the inventory can quickly become full of doublons, being able to combine two damaged armor pieces of the same type to create a undamaged one, or two undamaged from the same type to create the same with a new color would be a great thing.
  • Armor isnt worth it in a meta thats ruled by stamina and stunning if all it does is reduce dmg (even though it doesnt reduce it to much) :pensive:
    Even if the penalty gets slightly heightened, would pay that for some stun/recoil protection.
    For now ill stay just within normal speed to make sure :pensive:

    I can imagine a full cut dmg suit to make a decent difference when fighting an enemy with a sword. But be fully honest.. there arent THAT much weapon users in PvP and at the ones that do.. disarming them asap is usually the way to go.
  • I like having the armor, my first character is a fast mobility guy and the new character I just created is a slow tank. I run the same combat deck on both for now while I'm learning moves on the new character and I have better luck with my heavy guy. 71 blunt and 89 cut defense 11 mobility. You just have to be smarter with ur stamina. Against fast spammers you just have to get good with ur defensive maneuvers. I've noticed I can take a lot of damage and sustain longer than my faster character.
  • edited October 2017
    What a weird thread, I disagree with a lot that has been said here.

    Since armor is a flat reduction, more hits (aka spammers) are actually preferable to fight against. I wear as much armor as I can before I reach 15 normal always.

    I have seen people still run 80 blunt and have great success to this day. Trading haymakers with them will mean I lose and these types of players were extremely popular into the competitive meta game before 1.06

    Also, sword attacks damage can mainly revolve around what type of sword and move you put on it.

    For instance, the River Gladius has a "-" Khalt rating (the highest rating) and despite it being the heaviest weapon, the attacks on this sword do high damage because I only use Khalt moves
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