"Back move" of stagger style is OP.
Subj.
I dunno why this thing is still exists in the game, but this should be fixed. Cause all this drunk guys have this "move back" move to avoid ANY type of attacks, no matter the direction and almoust no matter the timing (cause the "avoid window" is so giant). There are no counter measures for this like if you fight khalt you can use guard breaks to break thrugh their absorb ability. Here it just nothing... They just spam that thing every second move and counter attack you. For windfall you have 3(!!!) directions you have to chose to avoid attacks. But this guys... they don't need to remember your deck, or choose a right direction to avoid a corresponding attack they just *poop* drag mouse back every single time - and like "oh I'm soo good in this game" - easy.
Jesus Christ could you please do so this "back move" doesn't help agains a direct attacks? Like guard breaks for example. Why do even they have a universal tool for avoding? I just can't understand.
Yes I know you can slower your pacing etc. but if your opponent has attacks which are faster than yours it wouldn't help, he will be just mixing that thing with his fast attacks and defeat you.
And yeah, for those who want to defend this and say that it's not OP, I've got a universual argument - drinking alcohol is bad for your heath. And I will spam this argument until you lose.
I dunno why this thing is still exists in the game, but this should be fixed. Cause all this drunk guys have this "move back" move to avoid ANY type of attacks, no matter the direction and almoust no matter the timing (cause the "avoid window" is so giant). There are no counter measures for this like if you fight khalt you can use guard breaks to break thrugh their absorb ability. Here it just nothing... They just spam that thing every second move and counter attack you. For windfall you have 3(!!!) directions you have to chose to avoid attacks. But this guys... they don't need to remember your deck, or choose a right direction to avoid a corresponding attack they just *poop* drag mouse back every single time - and like "oh I'm soo good in this game" - easy.
Jesus Christ could you please do so this "back move" doesn't help agains a direct attacks? Like guard breaks for example. Why do even they have a universal tool for avoding? I just can't understand.
Yes I know you can slower your pacing etc. but if your opponent has attacks which are faster than yours it wouldn't help, he will be just mixing that thing with his fast attacks and defeat you.
And yeah, for those who want to defend this and say that it's not OP, I've got a universual argument - drinking alcohol is bad for your heath. And I will spam this argument until you lose.
Comments
put compared to khalt and forsaken stagger isnt op because you wont get a high advantage from spamming your back dodge as long as your opponent isnt that stupid to get hit by a fast move afterwards over and over again.
As I said this move can avoid ANY attacks, no matter the direction: horizontal, vertial, diagonal, whatever. On the contrary I'AM ASKING to do so that it should matter which direction I'm using. Cause right now it doesn't matter. Even if I made every single attack in my deck as vertical, staggers still will avoid them with their back move.
I'm not use ducking dodges 70% of the time I'm using those that work against my opponent. If I used it against you - its mean that you have too many high attacks. Basically I have one or two moves to avoid attacks from every direction. And if we are talking about percents then most of my attacks are dodging low attacks.
>>If your deck would be more diverse stagger players would fight you with more than the back dodge
Let them do it, it does not matter, what's important is that direct attacks doesn't work if stagger makes a back move. Haven't you read what I said?
Please read this: Staggers back move can avoid ANY ATTACK, doesn't matter: vertical, horiizontal, diagonal it works against everything. So every time you take the initiative he just spam his back move, even khalts are not so annoying, while other classes have notable weaknesses. For example windfall have to remember the opponent deck, against forsaken you can fake your attacks, you can break khalt absorbing by guard breaks. And what do we have for stagger? Huh? He has a universal move to avoid ANY kind of attacks and this is not fair to other classes. When I do guard break I've contantly see how the leg of my character passes through the staggers and it doesn't count as hit. This is just stupid. They should have pros and cons like other classes. And It has nothing to do with my deck at all. Cause I'm talking with people and they suffer from it as well.
That is because on the other hand the stagger avoid has alot disadvantages compared to a parry, absorb or successful windfall dodge: you cant punish the opponent for free, you dont nessecerily get a speed advantage
aaand the stamina recovery isnt that strong as windfall and your opponent isnt slowed nor is he stopped from gold linking.
As you should see by now there are easiely as much cons as pros to the backdodge. May ask for other opinions or learn something till you fully understand it before you want it to change at all costs.
p.s
you play forsaken with earth quake and heal xD did you even realise most of the players consider that to be OP?
Orly? And your is not an opinion but a truer truth?
C'mon man.
>>Shouting out stagger would be over powered just because you fought some stagger players that where really good doesnt help
Wha? Why you still continue this? Man? Why you trying to arrange as if the whole thing is in me? It is counterproductive, dude, you're act like some kind of fanboy which is belive that the game is perfect and there just can't be something unbalanced.
Ok. Lets make it simple.
Are you going to argue that you can avoid any attacks with back moves (vertical and direct included)? Yes or no?
Man, stop acting like you know me because we fought once.
I play windfall as well and constantly changing my abilities. Yesterday I was playing with that thing that is freezing opponents shards for example, before I was using shockwave. Now its earthquake. And I agree that it is OP and devs need to nerf it a little bit, lets say set the cost to 3 shards. But the problem is... THAT THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT IT
I didnt assume the game or the back dodge to be perfect BUT there is much more to the balancing than just
: being able to dodge anything=OP : because of the lvl of effectiveness AND the the diffeculty of timing.
Despite youre saying the back dodge would be easy to time its action time is shorter than that of forsaken for example.
At last, yes this thread isnt about your personal playstyle, but since i didnt see you comment on the other sections of balancing but instead focusing on 30%, of one move, of one style i had to guide your attention to more topics
in order to get a more funtional instead of emotional view.
First of all, no you haven't answered. Secondly IT IS a question of being able to dodge anything )
Especially when you claim this: "if your deck would be more diverse stagger players would fight you with more than the back dodge, but it isnt"
Other stuff is just a demagogy, sorry.
>>of one style i had to guide your attention to more topics
>>in order to get a more funtional instead of emotional view.
Oh I see you're one of those who put themselves above everyone else and a priori believes that people are stupider than you are? ) Man I'am suggesting you to stop doing that.
If you're against that Im saying - please just move along. Relax a bit, I clearly understand that you're not agree with me, but I dunno why u're trying to impose your point of view on me like it is a purpose of your existence.
Thanks so much for your feedback! We truly appreciate the time you took to share your opinion on the Stagger "Back Move" with us, and will be sure to pass it along. Please feel free to share any other suggestions or feedback you may have in the future.
That means im not interested in how intelligent or whatever you are but the ONLY thing that matters to me is what youve said. You dont include the downsides of the back dodge, thats why its just logical that you havent analysed it properly.
For example:
1: There are no counter measures for this - charged moves break through the hit of the back dodge and all evasive moves except for jumps wont get hit by it.
2. they don't need to remember your deck - decks have fast and slow attacks, since the timing is shorter than with forsaken you have to guess the attack OR react to it, but thats just the case for every other combat style except that windfall and forsaken have more direction but although have much stronger reward.
You said something onesided and partly incorrect thats why i added my view.
Thats simply a function of a forum, to exchange opinions.
stagger abilities beninift alot from the heal skill because they hit, but otherwise they have the only special ability that can be stoppoed by another special ability... because they hit.
So is it OP. No its not.
though on the other hand there are some attacks that should'nt be dodged by it. maybe a small revieiw on its interaction with some (not all) moves is needed.
P.S you could always unlock vs one who spams it and sprint attack him to engage. Or be less agressive and wait for counters, they cant evade while in the middle of delivering a hit.
The only downside of back dodge is timing. Its 1000000000% eaiser as for other classes.
And I tried it for my self. There no need to use any skill for this move you just spam it and it works, it SUPER easy to do, I just switched to stagger first time and you've seen that there was no problem for me to do it. It was my third fight with this class, man!
Direct hits (like direct guard brakes) shouldn't be avoided by this move, thats why you have side move. Cause right now you just don't need it at all. And it much easier to fight with other classes cause you can avoid every second hit. Its easy as hell. Now try the same trick for forsaken or for widnfall I'll look how fast you will be destroyed.
The only person here who is too emotional to admit an obvious thing is you, cause seems like you play as stagger and afraid that your favorite class will be nerfed.
Khalts have the same problems by the way. Thay also just do random spam of their ability every time you try to takethe initiative. But unlike stagger you can break through their defences by guard brakes. Stagger can avoid everything without any punishment and you know that for sure I've seen how you spammed that shit with back move + ghosting. Its OP as hell, cause you can't do something similar for any of other classes. And it doesn't matter if there some other methods of balance conceived in the game, cause they do not work!
If someone managed to defeat you is because he has a better deck or because he is a waaaay more skilled than you like one of this golden or crystal players, and it will be 100% easier for him to destroy you if you switch your class, no doubt. Don't belive me - try to be a windfall for some time and you will notice how hard your life will become.
Direct hits as I said... you can call it middle..
You should have side move to avoid direct hits like front kick or any kind of vertical attaks and back move for the rest (sweeps basically)...
I said this at the start...
OP or not OP doens't matter universal moves for avoiding everything should not be existed in the game from the start, Stagger should learn how to remember the opponent deck as everybody else.
Also it looks really stupid when your leg pass through the opponent and it doesn't count as hit.
PS
>>I can clearly See that you take that personally.
Im am not taking that personallyJesus Christ! I dont even know who u are people I see you first time in my life, I dont care about everything you saying.
I just do not understand whty I am suppose to justify my self and prove something that is not even your concern. Why do you even discussing me if I have already formulated a very obvious problem with which everyone else agreed by the way? Please remove any conversation about my person, my deck, when I play, with whom I fought etc etc from any of your discussion, and talk about problem I've defined. If you're not agree - go ahead prove your point if you want, but stop trying to blame me. I can define when the problem is me and then it is a game. So from now on lets assume that this question is closed.
i already played all styles and i have no problem to demonstrate it.
btw no one attacked you by any means i just told my opinion to the topic and to your playstyle and not to your personality or any of that, but still you got attached so dont blame others now.
Thanks!
"Cannot avoid Mid/Thrust attacks anymore
Has a Charging property"
I'll just leave it here...
they need to not avoid mid verticals to.
but they also need a little buff to go with that nerf on something else, cause right now they run out of stamina to fast
and strafes moves gets the last word/laugh on all thier defencive directions.
sarcasm
srsly stagger has everything it needs
sides would dodge all verticals or trusts of any kind
back would dodge all horizontals of any kind and all trusts or vertical that are high or low.
(still the holy mother of viabe)
front can tank anything but GBs and doubles.
they have options for anything.
plus they can feint them and gold link them.
the problem with stagger is its defencives work pooly vs charges and horizontal double hits and side strafes.
but if they make the back stagger no longer avoid vertical mids they can widen the window in exchange so that double hits are not so inconsisten to dodge, and even make the kick a stoping to deal with charges that just push trough.
if thats not enough reduce their stamina consumption.
and as for side strafes well no buff should be given to deal with that, the strafes them selves should be nerfed.
cause rn staggers them selves dont like it as they see attacks go through thier body, not fun for both sides.
here's how the convo goes with a stagger " oh shit that went right trough you " their responce " yea thats weird as hell i should have to sides or front"
i liked that the dev's choose to let mid thrusts hit and i would like all the vertical moves to hit because it fits the animation.
my main intention is that there should be a balance to such a nerf and that a small buff like, less stamina costs wont be enough.
Against good players, stagger abilities need to be feinted alot of the time because it will get absorbed or parried or dodged and the opponent will get alot of stamina from this without much of a risk. so if a i can give suggestion for a buff.
let stagger players gold link a feinted dodge with their next technique. that would make stagger alot more fast paced and could balance stagger without making it to simular to windfall. and in return the vertical move can hit ofc.
Every single stagger I met - abusing it.
Staggers backdodge is easy to counter. the frontcharge is actually alot stronger if you fight a good opponent.
(front charge hits everywhere and is fast enough to interrupt most double punches and gb)
many players dont do it but staggers backdodge is punishable with fast moves.