Issues with 1.13

pod476

So while I think this patch did a lot of good things, I have a serious issue with the change in gold link and combat speed. The combat feels similar to 1.06, super slow and severely limiting options to mixup or feint attacks. The kahlt freeze frame idea feels like the game is stuttering when it goes off, and acts like a buff instead of the nerf. The actual nerfs to certain moves are nice (rip grab punch), but the combat as a whole just plays too slow and clunky. Please at least reconsider reverting the core combat back to 1.12

insight

There's a lot of talk on the PSN forums of long time players of quitting the game because of the change in mechanics. The move balancing and class balancing are one thing, but changing the fundamentals at this stage might be a mistake that's going to lose a lot of core players.

insight

I think it's this part of the patch that should be looked at asap: "Gold link release set specifically per attack". That being said, there's a lot of good changes, like folding the weapons, and move balancing. However, fundamental mechanic changes are causing a rift in the player base at the moment that might be irreversible if this part of the patch isn't reverted, or reconsidered.

frowningmirror

I think we liked most of the changes except how gold linking is harder to pull off which is causing input delays because a missed opportunity forces me to wait out recovery frames.

I also do not like how guard break sends people flying across the room. It is very hard to break peoples guard, giving them a push so they can get away from me is frustrating.

Finally, Khalt feels stronger, rather than weaker. The stamina change was fine. No need to buff them with 6 frames (which is really strong)

ghosttounge

I agree combat has become very slow and clunky. The only way to play rn is to be very careful and punish mistakes, other then that method it is pretty hard yo get a nice combo going even when goldlinking. Tbh i might drop the game too, cuz im not having fun playing like this. If im gonna lose in a game i wanna lose having fun and im no longer having fun

slcp_WaterfallX

Hey guys,

Thank you for your feedback. We understand that any change could be positive or negative for someone. We appreciate that you share your thoughts and your game experience. Please continue to do that; we need your feedback.

Nanashi

slcp_WaterfallX said:

Hey guys,
We understand that any change could be positive or negative for someone.

My thoughts exactly. Every change is there for a reason. That reason being "balancing". I'm certainly not going to stop playing just because some old (and unbalanced) tricks (read "meta") doesn't work anymore. And I'm sure there are plenty of players like me..

pod476

Look, the move nerfs and style changes outside of khalt were great, but currently there’s a punishment for delaying attacks (not goldlinking), and its cutting complexity from the game. On top of that, I’ve already noticed that I can’t feint as much either, as my attacks are coming out of a feint slow enough to be interrupted. I’m curious to see what you thought were exploits in 1.12 that were addressed by the gold link change and not the change to certain moves

insight

I think the problem isn't that some people like or dislike the changes -- but that the changes are too fundamental to make with a core group of players that have sunk hundreds and hundreds of hours into the game from day 1. If the game feels like a different game from patch to patch, that's going to lose a lot of active players. There might be new players jumping on board at this time that don't notice the difference, but a casual player isn't going to reach the same level with the mechanics as they were, mechanics that have been pretty much set from day one.

It's like starting over for many people, and that's not something people are going to accept if the play-style they've used since release day or before is no longer viable. If the argument then goes to "just adapt to it", then the counter argument for a new player is to adapt to the old veterans that are stunningly hard to beat. The feel of the tough as nails martial arts masters is somewhat gone, and the game does feel slower and less complicated, now.

pod476

Its like when halo added aim down sights and sprint, made it a completely different game

Nanashi

Can't argue with that. Not even going to try. What I want to say is that the game had and still has some issues. Devs try make this game more balanced and appealing to people by dealing with those issues. They try to bring some strategy, variety so that nothing will seem too OP. Honestly, I can't even say if I like those changes or not at this point - they were introduced only yesterday after all.

Still I think that there can be no moving forward without changes. And sometimes they have to be fundamental. This update may introduce some new issues, but I think it's our duty as players to voice them, so that they will be fixed in some future updates. And it's a pity that for some people that is a good enough reason to quit.

pod476

What were the issues you had with the previous patch, its a simple question. Changing moves and abilities can and does dictact meta changes, changing something as fundamental as how combos flow completely changes the game

insight

Pod, I'd say that adding those things is more of an optional feature (which may have changed how everyone played, I don't know), while these are subtle changes that effect every aspect of game-play. The feel is different. It's similar to 1.06 where the game completely changed overnight, and that is usually a very bad idea in a competitive game, where a lot of time is sunk into reaction time. In a competitive game (and competitive game-market, especially for multiplayer games), big changes to the core once a game is released might kill the game for a lot of players. The biggest indication is how split the community is over it, and how friendly coop communities are becoming very toxic because of the arguments. Balancing individual moves and classes is part of a game's evolution, but changing the core might mean waking up to a different game -- a game that a lot of very active players no longer want to play.

Nanashi

I have a feeling this is going nowhere, as we trying to achieve different things. Certainly didn't come here to argue, but still, no reason to leave you question without an answer.

pod476 said:

What were the issues you had with the previous patch, its a simple question.

I'm not sure which issues were introduced in 1.12, but here are some of the topics just to give you a general idea:
1. https://absolvergame.com/forums/discussion/26610/balancing-moves - mostly on spot, especially about stagger moves.
2. https://absolvergame.com/forums/discussion/26496/gold-linking-is-terrible
3. https://absolvergame.com/forums/discussion/26477/twist-parry-strike-doesnt-connect

pod476 said:

Changing moves and abilities can and does dictact meta changes, changing something as fundamental as how combos flow completely changes the game

As I've already said, it's quite meaningless to argue with that. It's a fact. You want to make the game better? You have to change things. There are just people that don't like those changes, but hey.... I don't think it's the last update. As long as we keep playing and provide some feedback we can make this game better. That's my point.

Now I suppose it's high time for me to remember that everyone has different opinions.

Vital

frowningmirror said:

I think we liked most of the changes except how gold linking is harder to pull off which is causing input delays because a missed opportunity forces me to wait out recovery frames.

I also do not like how guard break sends people flying across the room. It is very hard to break peoples guard, giving them a push so they can get away from me is frustrating.

Finally, Khalt feels stronger, rather than weaker. The stamina change was fine. No need to buff them with 6 frames (which is really strong)

Mirror khalt only feels strong at mid lvl at top tier lvl and after the buffs of windfall and stagger khalt needed that to stop whit the stupid fast gold link non stop, i think that this patch is all about that, and the moves to be more balance some moves needed that time to recover after a block, every one was busing of fast low sweeps for exemple now its better.
if u think like for example windfall is weak fight a true windfall like hokagae our se us fighting and u will see... because one thing its beeing weak the other is beeing harder to master, peaple usually dont think about that

pod476

And like i said nanashi the changes to moves were fine, the changes to gold link were not fine. There was never an issue with gold linking being too fast, with most attacks being stamina negative you could always just sit back and guard and wait for an opening to use an avoid move or defensive ability or universal dodge. This change feels like a concession to bad players who didn’t deal with gold link properly. By all means nerf stagger moves, fix the parry moves.

methamos

After playing some more hours after the new patch i have to say, yes the gold link before the patch was better. It felt great to have a smooth combo and now i miss it.

SlyRiot

With so many in agreement that the gold linking change has negatively effected the game im sure sloclap will do all they can to make it right.
A major focus of martial arts is devotion, it really is a shame some people choose to walk away from such a potential master piece of a game.
Fold well my friends.

Blion

Slocap did say in the release notes that they would be looking closely at the changes to see if they needed tweaking, so fear not. However, I'm going to take some time to get used to the new mechanics before weighing in, I think other players should do the same. This update is only a few days old.

R3kk3N

well on discord they openly admitted that windfall is broken.. this is my biggest issue besides the now over punishing kahlt.. 6 frames is too much in the right hands it becomes rediculous

insight

Yeah, ironically it's the khalt changes that are making me take a break, too. The gold-link changes didn't effect me as much because my style has been interrupt / counter-attack since the beginning. That style works great now, except against top-tier khalts, that now have no counter -- at all. If there's no way to beat someone using my chosen playstyle and class, no matter how hard I try -- or adapt, then that I'm out. Folded until 1.14, perhaps.

Rip_Ridah

On top of Windfall being broken, Khalt being buffed with frame advantage, and the combat feeling like we're fighting in a muddy swamp, the stupid stance change bug is back. 2 steps forward, 3 steps back Sloclap.

Blion

Is anybody else experiencing major lag and disconnection issues since the update? Seems worse on my end...