Combat targeting is broken versus multiple opponents after Downfall Update

Prior to the Downfall update the player could use the direction joystick to target alternate opponents in any of the four directions and attack as appropriate to that direction. The targeting and camera would stay fixed on the first opponent which allowed the player to use the joystick direction intuitively. This created a very smooth and almost 'batman' like feel to the combat when fighting groups effectively. Indeed once you were good at it you could fight many opponents with a certain amount of ease since the prior AI was a bit on the overcautious side. This also allowed you to use your defensive style ability for flanking attackers if you were sharp enough to do so in time and use the CORRECT direction for the move. You could not spam it. It took weeks to master the timing and awareness. This didn't prevent them from grouping up and kicking your butt in a corner but it was well balanced and hella fun to play.

Currently, you cannot smoothly target flanking attackers using the facing they are in with any reliability. Since the update trying to target a flanking attacker is ridiculously difficult since the game won't let you do so smoothly. It very much feels like I have to fight with the camera control a lot more than the opponents themselves. I find that many times when directing the attack toward the flanker the game instead continues to attack the camera target. It WILL change directions but only if you continue to push and attack repeatedly in the desired direction and catch some seemingly arbitrary window. That makes no sense. Attacks should always follow the flow of the players joystick related to the camera position. As such the attack may fly at open air, but the swing that misses also puts that flanker at bay affording you a small amount of time or space to mix up your combat as appropriate. Or in the case of a mobility fighter use the actual fighting moves to maneuver around. That's extremely hard to do well, but it is absolutely a valid tactic. It also feels ridiculously frustrating to the player when you keep getting hit because the camera won't shift target and NONE of your defensive abilities work correctly when the camera targets the wrong opponent. That's awfully unpleasant in my experience since the update.

Arguably, the new targeting option looks like an attempted resolution to this. Unfortunately, changing the targeting option to target on hit does not actually resolve this as it also forces a stance change when they were using the flank stance attacks for their exact proper purpose in hand to hand combat. Flanking stances are for fighting flanked opponents. Forcing you out of the stance on hit (as camera shifts target) undermines the strategy of any combat style by undermining the usability of the flanking attack chains. As it stands this seriously degrades the combat experience throughout the game.

I've tried both options for a full day of gameplay to get a sense of the difference between them and to better understand the pros and cons of each, but I'm fairly confident at this point it's broken in both cases. Unfortunately it is very hard to put a finger on. It currently feels very rigid in the Off mode to the point of anger. Interestingly, in the On mode it switches more readily but punishes you with the arbitrary stance change. Thanks.


  • I've had similar issues, my favorite is when you attack one npc and the other windfall dodges it canceling your hit and slowing you.
  • Hello matthewpmcguire,

    Thank you for your detailed feedback about targeting after Downfall update. All your observations were passed along to the dev team for further review. In the meantime, if there are any other details you can share with us about the bug that would be very helpful.

    Thank you so much for your patience and continued support.
  • No problem! The game is far too enjoyable to play and frankly a platform gamers wet dream for hand to hand combat in a game. I personally love the 3d Platformer game type but almost all fighting games are side scrollers at heart. So this is a swan song to my old gamer heart. It's really groundbreaking work if you ask me. So sure, it's going to have bugs and issues and over time they will get smoothed out. That's the breaks in software. The better we help report issues the more likely they will get resolved effectively. So let's hope for the best and let's see how far this concept can really go.
  • Ok, quick update on this post the bugfix release... I'm speechless. Seriously. It's amazing. Within five minutes I could literally feel how much smoother it worked again and was able to change direction fluidly with only marginal sticky spots where you are actually caught on something on the terrain. The fights with Ama Saba, Lamren, and Ristael are much more exciting and fun now. I can use the combat maneuvers correctly again and I can't express how satisfying it is to dodge an incoming swing with a well calculated leg sweep that ducks properly. (It's damn near critical to have it for fighting Ama and goons alone.) I played the deck as it was (I never changed the official school one to make sure it was the same exact state as much as possible) before update and it was so satisfying!!! I am able to go murder bot mode on all reds, some oranges, or a couple purples. Three purples can put me down handily. Groups of five or more are challenging enough to be exciting and 8 or so reds and a couple oranges can overrun me if they get me cornered. :smiley: Yellows are always Marked One level badass, and that's excellent everywhere. So I think you got both the AI difficulty AND the control feeling spot on. I also really like how the more advanced AI are tactical and somewhat strategic in groups. They use the magic exactly as they should and it is really great for the fight. Also makes sure people learn to include the magic in the fight for combat trials. Also validated the same results in Combat Trails. I can properly outbox and dart and weave again. Faejin is wonderful to fight as it and Windfall counter each other in neat ways. I can evade and get my punish in if I get the timing right. It's just as tricky as it should be.

    So... excellent release guys! That had to be an incredibly hard set of sprints in some pretty harsh business weather as well. It was incredibly brave to be the 'free' game on PS Plus Network in the middle of that cycle given the boom in users. Looking back on it I was really worried, but it looks like you got a lot of great feedback and work done and folded it all into this release. This is superb work and is deeply appreciated! Thanks again!

    Now to go train some monks for my school.... :smiley:
Sign In or Register to comment.