Players should retain a SMALL PORTION of move XP upon death

I am certain a full blown debate will erupt about this eventually on these forums, but I am of the opinion that players should get to retain a small portion of their move XP when they die (maybe 25% or less). I think it would make the bugs and the inevitable network issues (there will always be network issues) feel a lot less punishing.

I'm also concerned about the way the move XP mechanic will affect the player base over time. It's going to be really punishing to players who are new to this kind of defense oriented, methodical combat. Some players may hit a wall and move on to something that runs better simply because they can't find a way to efficiently learn moves.

In my opinion, they should just get the moves. Fighting should earn you moves, whether or not you get KO'd. Why? Because I want good PvP fights with players who have diverse move sets. I don't want anyone to have an advantage or a disadvantage simply because they have or haven't punched enough (boring) NPCs (the marks and the bosses are alright though). I mean we're all here for PvP right? There isn't anything else to this game, so, lets empower the players to help make that awesome.

There is also this problem:
a) PLAYER A is at a high level, he's fighting in 1v1 against PLAYER B.
b) PLAYER B is lower level. He hasn't had the game as long and his combat deck has fewer moves.
c) PLAYER B is repetitively crushed by PLAYER A because of his limited moveset. PLAYER B retains none of his move XP and learns no moves, while PLAYER A actually manages to learn a couple of moves from PLAYER B.

See what I mean? I think once the debut excitement dies down and the player-base floors, it is going to be really hard to cycle in new players that stick for this reason. This mechanic basically tells the player that there is no reason for them to ever take on a higher level player. There is no reward for it. There is only pain.


  • You can switch to offline in the options at the menu to farm moves if the network is that much of an issue. I live in Australia and this is what I ended up doing until oceanic servers went up. Also I think the schools will be able to fix this a bit when more people reach the level to make them.
  • I agree with you about the PvP. I think it would help w/ people just cliff knocking opponents all the time too.
    If they're gonna match a lvl8 vs a 32, you should retain something.
    Still think you should defeat NPC's
  • I wish death to be worth something... As is the only thing that makes death avoiding worth it, is to gain said move XP. I rather have penalty on death on top it. But to make it even less reason to stay alive is a big NO from me. People already clear areas, then jump off cliffs just to re-spawn enemies, which is lame.... Should be penalty for this, not easier on the only penalty for death, which doesn't even always apply. But their shouldn't be an added death penalty for 1vs1 outside of the main world, or any such pvp outside the main world.
  • You make a fair point, but I agree with @Keha I want death to matter.
  • I don't really think this mechanic makes death matter. I think it is pretending to make death matter. It is the mechanical equivalent of a Get Gud meme. In the end you still get right back up and keep going. Retaining only a small portion of move XP still gives death weight. Let's say you only get to keep 10%. Losing 90% of that XP is still a hefty penalty.

    I am already beginning to feel my interest in this game waning because it doesn't respect my time. It expects me to sit and farm moves by either absorbing hits or nailing parries. This can take 5 or 10 minutes in a lot of cases if I'm going for a specific move. If I make a mistake and die that gets doubled. That becomes 10 or 20 minutes for one or two moves. Thanks, but no thanks.

    Also, for those saying farm your moves offline to avoid bugs. No. I'm really not interested. That isn't how this game is meant to be played. It is meant to be an online shared world where unexpected things happen through unique player interaction. That is the best and, in my opinion, most valuable thing about this game as an experience. If that part of things doesn't get polished, then there is little reason to stick around for me or anyone really.

    I guess another possible way to improve this problem would be to simply make moves cost less XP so that it takes less time to master them. If they can pull that into a better feeling and more reasonable pocket, I'll be satisfied. Right now it takes about twice as long as I feel it should.

    Another possible solution might be to let players keep move XP but lose player level XP on defeat. That way you don't level, but you still improve, and you can head back into the same fight with some new tricks.
  • edited September 2017
    In Souls, you get one chance to retrieve what you lose instantaneously. Without that trade off, punishing the player for the time they spend in the game is counterintuitive and discouraging to growing a community.
  • Ah now that sounds a bit more interesting to me, keeping move xp but not player level xp. I could see how that could make sense because you still learn about punches when you get hit, even if you get knocked out. When you wake up, you're still gonna (hopefully) remember how that punch came at you and what you could do to avoid it in the future
  • Yea, that one felt a little better to me to.
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