Guilty! Sort-of. I didn't WANT to use certain moves but everybody was using side-step attacks so I had to counter with quick sweeps. Also I found that evasive low attacks were the best way to counter speed decks that primarily use high attacks; I tried blocking or countering the fast-spam but a good chain comes in faster than a parry can activate. At least I haven't stooped to using WWDP or Grab Punch, I still have some dignity
I am using multiple dodge-attacks but i dont consider them cheap. You still have to use the right dodging moves to counter certain attacks and most of them are slower than regular attacks so just filling your deck randomly with dodge moves and spamming attacks wont get you too far. I guess what we consider cheap depends on what we struggle against. I personally find decks with multiple quick double attacks cheap because i have problems dealing with them, others think that charged moves or especially grab punch is cheap. If you stuggle with auto dodge moves then maybe your deck has too many moves that hit the same area. I encountered a lot of people who used up to 3 swipes in a row so i made a stance with 2 low-dodges and 1 regular low attack and switch to it whenever i need to.
Some moves have way less counters than others, which is the issue. Side dodging moves are only so powerful because JLK and BTK exist. Covering their only true weaknesses, making reversing pressure an at worse 50/50 at any moment. So the op is partially correct, but they didn't specify multiple auto dodge attacks in combination.
Some moves have way less counters than others, which is the issue. Side dodging moves are only so powerful because JLK and BTK exist. Covering their only true weaknesses, making reversing pressure an at worse 50/50 at any moment. So the op is partially correct, but they didn't specify multiple auto dodge attacks in combination.
Roll Back Fist is defeated by > Back Tripped Kick, Stretch Out Hook, Meia Luia, Tripped Kick, Heel Spin (or whatever that sweep is), Whirlwind Punch, Foot Slap, Scissor Kick, and on and on. Sweeps. There are a lot of sweeps.
Back Tripped Kick is defeated by > Jumped Light Kick and about 8 million other mid hits. I'm not naming them all becuase I forget their names. Backfall Strike is another, and it's a darn good move too.
Grab punch has counters but this move is a bit more egregious. I'd say the problem with some of these openers (RBF, BTK, JLK, GP) is the speed to damage ratio. They are very fast while still doing really nice damage. Grab Punch IS ridiculous AF because it feels broken. It hits mid and it also does the tracking thing that mids do sometimes with latency, where they follow your basic dodge or dodge attack through frames.
But there are indeed lots of counters to the meta moves. They aren't cheap. OP just uses too many thrusting attacks.
Some moves have way less counters than others, which is the issue. Side dodging moves are only so powerful because JLK and BTK exist. Covering their only true weaknesses, making reversing pressure an at worse 50/50 at any moment. So the op is partially correct, but they didn't specify multiple auto dodge attacks in combination.
Roll Back Fist is defeated by > Back Tripped Kick, Stretch Out Hook, Meia Luia, Tripped Kick, Heel Spin (or whatever that sweep is), Whirlwind Punch, Foot Slap, Scissor Kick, and on and on. Sweeps. There are a lot of sweeps.
Back Tripped Kick is defeated by > Jumped Light Kick and about 8 million other mid hits. I'm not naming them all becuase I forget their names. Backfall Strike is another, and it's a darn good move too.
Roll Backfist is not directly countered by Scissor Kick, Foot Slap, and Stretch Out Hook. Mainly due to the range of RBF being much higher, and the speed being not too far off. They are potential soft counters due to their speed, but you can be easily outspaced by RBF. Making them only soft counters
Most mid hits and low hits that counter BTK are slow enough to be interrupted consistently by it (only exception being a gold link after a high blockstun attack lands on their guard). JLK and Illusion Twist Kick are the only hard counters as anything else jumping is too slow to jump in time, or whiffs over the sweep. You can use Jumped Spin Kick as a counter on initiation, but mid pressure you get hit before you even jump.
Not saying they can't be beat, but their lower amount of overall direct counters makes them much more effective for use mid pressure. Being able to lock down your opponent more reliably can lead to a much higher chance of landing an attack, or dealing some good stamina damage. In addition, them having limited options makes their tactics more predictable, and in turn makes tricking/conditioning them much easier.
They are definitely a problem, some of the moves are too fast and have too much range. Yes you can dodge(not consistently) and block them, but guard pressure is a small game in itself, and with moves that have such good properties and stats to keep you locked down for a really fast guard break like Jump Out Elbow, it's pretty annoying finding people only using those moves. The variety is gone, the deck building system is wasted because everyone is just fundamentally using the same deck.
Comments
I guess what we consider cheap depends on what we struggle against. I personally find decks with multiple quick double attacks cheap because i have problems dealing with them, others think that charged moves or especially grab punch is cheap.
If you stuggle with auto dodge moves then maybe your deck has too many moves that hit the same area. I encountered a lot of people who used up to 3 swipes in a row so i made a stance with 2 low-dodges and 1 regular low attack and switch to it whenever i need to.
Back Tripped Kick is defeated by > Jumped Light Kick and about 8 million other mid hits. I'm not naming them all becuase I forget their names. Backfall Strike is another, and it's a darn good move too.
Grab punch has counters but this move is a bit more egregious. I'd say the problem with some of these openers (RBF, BTK, JLK, GP) is the speed to damage ratio. They are very fast while still doing really nice damage. Grab Punch IS ridiculous AF because it feels broken. It hits mid and it also does the tracking thing that mids do sometimes with latency, where they follow your basic dodge or dodge attack through frames.
But there are indeed lots of counters to the meta moves. They aren't cheap. OP just uses too many thrusting attacks.
Most mid hits and low hits that counter BTK are slow enough to be interrupted consistently by it (only exception being a gold link after a high blockstun attack lands on their guard). JLK and Illusion Twist Kick are the only hard counters as anything else jumping is too slow to jump in time, or whiffs over the sweep. You can use Jumped Spin Kick as a counter on initiation, but mid pressure you get hit before you even jump.
Not saying they can't be beat, but their lower amount of overall direct counters makes them much more effective for use mid pressure. Being able to lock down your opponent more reliably can lead to a much higher chance of landing an attack, or dealing some good stamina damage. In addition, them having limited options makes their tactics more predictable, and in turn makes tricking/conditioning them much easier.
Yes you can dodge(not consistently) and block them, but guard pressure is a small game in itself, and with moves that have such good properties and stats to keep you locked down for a really fast guard break like Jump Out Elbow, it's pretty annoying finding people only using those moves. The variety is gone, the deck building system is wasted because everyone is just fundamentally using the same deck.