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New Low/Mid/High System

VelindianVelindian
in Suggestions?
Rather than having mid attacks hit both high and low, we should have separate low, mid, and high categories. Faster attacks like jabs and quicker sweeps would only hit 1 area, and slower or mid speed attacks would hit 2 areas. Vertical attacks would be the only attacks that hit all 3 areas, but always have no side coverage. Depending on the side/vertical coverage of an attack and it's speed, other factors like evasion or damage can be adjusted for finer balance.

Attacks like Back Tripped Kick or Jumped Light Kick could still be fast, but only avoid 1 area as opposed to 2 making them a bit more situational. JLK would hit low and mid (allowing slower high jumping attacks to avoid it), but only avoid low. Opening it to more counters without changing it too much. BTK would only avoid high making it a really good high attack counter, without making it too good against most attacks. Low Spin Heel would avoid both high and mid, making it usable against attacks that BTK can not counter. Slower attacks would be justified in avoid more, having higher coverage, or hitting harder (if they have low/similar coverage at the cost of speed).

Attacks like roll punch would hit mid and low, jabs would exclusively hit high, etc.

In addition to allowing for more mechanical fine tuning, it would also allow certain attacks to visually match where they hit/avoid more closely.

Comments

  • insightinsight
    These are great ideas -- the back tripped kick is basically a get out of jail free card for any attack that isn't the jump light kick or a block. And it makes way more sense to have slower attacks avoid more. The game is really skewed toward certain moves because of the easy avoids, and I'm just waiting to see if balancing them will bring some more deck diversity.
  • slcp_Kaolinslcp_Kaolin
    Hey Velindian,

    Thank you for sharing your thoughts! I'll be bringing your ideas to the team, however I can't promise that they'll be implemented. Thanks again!
  • VelindianVelindian
    insight said:

    These are great ideas -- the back tripped kick is basically a get out of jail free card for any attack that isn't the jump light kick or a block. And it makes way more sense to have slower attacks avoid more. The game is really skewed toward certain moves because of the easy avoids, and I'm just waiting to see if balancing them will bring some more deck diversity.

    Main issue with fast attacks in any game is that in addition to there other attributes, they can also interrupt anything slower that doesn't directly counter them. So having more niche applications for slower moves allows quicker attacks to be equally viable without them completely overshadowing slower ones. Figured that certain attacks still visually land, and quicker evades can be balanced by evading less attacks overall. So a more specific system would work well given the types of attacks already implemented. For example Jumped Spin Kick gets hit by JLK or low hitting mid attacks like Body Blow, and it just doesn't make sense. You also get things like BTK that only duck down slightly, but still manage to avoid attacks that should land square in the jaw. Both the balance and the visual clarity are messed up by the oversimplification of vertical coverage mechanics.
  • insightinsight
    Velindian said:

    You also get things like BTK that only duck down slightly, but still manage to avoid attacks that should land square in the jaw. Both the balance and the visual clarity are messed up by the oversimplification of vertical coverage mechanics.

    That pretty much sums it up. I'd argue that the speed of the BTK is ridiculous in and of itself. For example, it's faster then the liver knee, which is a simple motion, and the liver knee would actually be a good interrupt for this. For the BTK you have someone dropping their center of gravity, spinning around, and still managing to have a hit that has a decent amount of damage -- and its the fastest low strike in the game. The liver knee motion is as simple as just lifting up the knee -- which would interrupt the BTK motion at the moment someone ducks down, getting a knee to the face.

  • insightinsight
    Didn't even think about this -- the liver knee would actually be a perfect counter, since lifting the leg that's going to be swept would prevent the BTK from even hitting the leg. Ironically enough, the liver knee should have a low avoid in certain instances.
  • VelindianVelindian
    insight said:

    Didn't even think about this -- the liver knee would actually be a perfect counter, since lifting the leg that's going to be swept would prevent the BTK from even hitting the leg. Ironically enough, the liver knee should have a low avoid in certain instances.

    Fun Fact: BTK is faster than Fast Jab

    Straight Punch is also slower than every attack in it's category before Body Blow. Pure garbage that needs a buff.
  • JXSJXS
    If this is the case then the UI needs to also be updated to reflect such changes; ways to sort and filter for specific types of moves. It's difficult and discouraging to a new player to see all this information; to have no point of reference as to what will work or won't and why that is the case. Unless the intent here is to have a "Dark Souls" feel where you just figure it out but with complex fighting mechanics as Absolver has, I feel that would be folly.

    When I started playing, not too long ago, I was welcomed with random people repeatedly killing me as I was exploring Adal and trying to figure out the game. Other than the basic tutorial, I had no context to any meta game and the finer points of how to effectively compete in PvP. In many ways I still don't.
  • VelindianVelindian
    JXS said:

    If this is the case then the UI needs to also be updated to reflect such changes; ways to sort and filter for specific types of moves. It's difficult and discouraging to a new player to see all this information; to have no point of reference as to what will work or won't and why that is the case. Unless the intent here is to have a "Dark Souls" feel where you just figure it out but with complex fighting mechanics as Absolver has, I feel that would be folly.

    When I started playing, not too long ago, I was welcomed with random people repeatedly killing me as I was exploring Adal and trying to figure out the game. Other than the basic tutorial, I had no context to any meta game and the finer points of how to effectively compete in PvP. In many ways I still don't.

    UI already needs to explain more. If I remember correctly there is a spreadsheet on the Absolver Subreddit that gives coverage (low, mid, high, and wether it's a sweep or a jab) information for all the attacks. As well as a rough speed estimation for each. That and talking to people on the official Discord server can help you get into it.

    Some people are just assholes, wether or not they just started or have been around for a while. I normally just disconnect if they're super laggy or i'm busy doing something else.
  • JXSJXS
    I think I happened upon the subreddit at one point during my research. It's quite through. It's awesome how the community bands together to help one another.

    I feel though, like many new players, there needs to be a little more simplification. More along the terms of, easy to pick up but difficult to master. Right now it feels more like trying to learn hieroglyphs without a Rosetta stone.
  • DarkShadowStepDarkShadowStep
    Velindian said:



    its a good idea Tekken 6 story mode had 3D fighting had low and high hits by using the D pad.
    and also to allow high and low blocking

  • DarkShadowStepDarkShadowStep
    3d low and high demonstrated in Tekken 6
    Using D pad
    press up for jump up to do high attack
    press down for low attack




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